Strikeforce Los Angeles June 16th Card

[Mr. IWS]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

Starting to wonder if Fedor's even on this card? I mean wasnt even mentioned

Scott Coker sets mid-May deadline for Fedor:

"There’s still dialogue between us and Fedor’s people," Strikeforce CEO Scott Coker said. "We’re hopeful we can get the take done as soon a possible. It’s an ongoing process to get him back. It’s been too long already."

Coker has set a mid-May deadline for putting the match together, as there is a target date of June 26 in San Jose set for the fight and the company wants a full six weeks of promotion.

HT: sports.yahoo.com, photo via sports.sho.com

[MMA_scientist]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

Re Werdum/Fedor:

How can you say he is not elite? Werdum is top 10 and has been dor several years. He lost to AA, but it was competive and he stood with AA for 3 full rounds and never really took a hard shot. In fact, I think Werdum gave more than he got in that fight, even though he was outpointed.

I think Werdum can stand with Fedor and survive. Werdum is also the very best grappler Fedor has ever fought... He already lost once to a positional grappler (Arona beat him, but the judges screwed him).

Obviously Fedor is a big favorite, but Werdum is a legit threat.

I don't really think Werdum will beat him, but I do think Fedor's skillset is massively overrated. He was getting his ass kicked by AA and Rogers. He lost to Arona. Randleman planted him on his head. Mark Hunt put him in side control for god sakes.

Don't get me wrong, I know there is more to fighting than technical perfection. I am a Fedor fan, and I would love to see him keep winning... but he definately has holes in his game. I just think a lot of it is heart, and frankly a lot of of it is luck. I personally think MMA is more poker than chess. Chess, the more skilled player is going to win pretty much every time. Poker, skill plays a big part, but so does luck. If GSP got put in those same situations, people would be making a huge deal out of it.

[SPX]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

How can you say he is not elite? Werdum is top 10 and has been dor several years. He lost to AA, but it was competive and he stood with AA for 3 full rounds and never really took a hard shot. In fact, I think Werdum gave more than he got in that fight, even though he was outpointed.

No actual fighting took place during that encounter.

I think Werdum can stand with Fedor and survive.

And I think I can stand with BJ and survive.

That is, Werdum's sub-par striking doesn't stand a chance.

I don't really think Werdum will beat him, but I do think Fedor's skillset is massively overrated.

The problem with this line of thinking is that if he's overrated--and luck has played such a vital role in his success--how the hell has it happened 32 times?

Yes, Fedor has been put in some bad positions and I can agree that he was losing against AA. I still want to see what would've happened if Arlovski hadn't charged in with that knee. But the odds are that if Fedor hadn't caught him right at that moment then he would've done it somewhere within the next 4 1/2 rounds. Because that's just what he does.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

I am creating a new symbol, like a bat symbol, used to call Svino into situations and math to set us straight:




Lets say that 20% of a fight can be attriubted to luck. So under normal circumstances Fedor's skill alone would make him 26-6. I do not dispute that Fedor is very skilled, just that his skill is much greater than any other top fighter.

Since there are thousands of fighters, I think the odds that one guy would get 10 lucky wins without a loss is not really that great. So lets just limit it to the top 50 fighters.

Svino, is there any way to quantify this, using my made up numbers?

If there are 50 fighters, and 20% of the time they will win or lose due to "luck", what are the chances that one of those guys would be unbeaten after 32 fights?

[Mr. IWS]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

LOL

[Luke]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

If GSP got put in those same situations, people would be making a huge deal out of it.

GSP has been in bad situations before (Serra and Hughes) and lost both times.Thats the difference between Fedor and GSP ,when Fedor is in trouble he gets out of it and wins.


Almost doesnt count.I dont think Fedor is luckly I think its 100% skill.

Whens most fighters get hurt they panic and thats why they lose .Fedor doesnt panic when he's in a bad situation


The guy has beat Coleman,Randleman,Cro Cop,NOG ,Herring,and Sobral all in their primes it takes more than luck imo to do that

[Luke]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

LOL at the bat signal

[Mr. IWS]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

GSP has been in bad situations before (Serra and Hughes) and lost both times.Thats the difference between Fedor and GSP ,when Fedor is in trouble he gets out of it and wins.

Oh noes, here comes zY!

GSP did get his tap on in that Serra fight.

[SPX]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

GSP did get his tap on in that Serra fight.

That's what happens when you fight Matt Serra.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

Almost doesnt count.I dont think Fedor is luckly I think its 100% skill.

I am not knocking Fedor. He is obviously one of the most skilled fighters out there. But I don't believe in 100% skill. There is a definate luck factor in MMA, IMO. There are just too many variable to control. If it was 100% skill, there would be a lot more undefeated fighters.

For example the Serra/GSP fight, if Serra threw that punch 100 times, I don't think he would be able to drop GSP again. It just hit him the magic sleepy spot on the back of his head. Or when Coleman beat Shogun, there is no way for Coleman to know that he is going to break his arm while trying to catch himself. Florian/Thomas. Diaz/Gamburyan. Penn/Hughes II. Random crap happens in mma fights. Personally, I put Fedor/AA in that category. He was getting pummelled, he threw a haymaker with his head down, and Arlovski just happened to be jumping into him at the time.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

...

[Ludo]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

[quote=SPX]

How can you say he is not elite? Werdum is top 10 and has been dor several years. He lost to AA, but it was competive and he stood with AA for 3 full rounds and never really took a hard shot. In fact, I think Werdum gave more than he got in that fight, even though he was outpointed.

No actual fighting took place during that encounter.

I think Werdum can stand with Fedor and survive.

And I think I can stand with BJ and survive.

That is, Werdum's sub-par striking doesn't stand a chance.

I don't really think Werdum will beat him, but I do think Fedor's skillset is massively overrated.

The problem with this line of thinking is that if he's overrated--and luck has played such a vital role in his success--how the hell has it happened 32 times?

Yes, Fedor has been put in some bad positions and I can agree that he was losing against AA. I still want to see what would've happened if Arlovski hadn't charged in with that knee. But the odds are that if Fedor hadn't caught him right at that moment then he would've done it somewhere within the next 4 1/2 rounds. Because that's just what he does.[/quote:3rq8iyw4]


Arlovski/Fedor was a 3 round fight.

[Luke]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

Arlovski/Fedor was a 3 round fight.

actually it was a 3 minute fight

[SPX]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

Arlovski/Fedor was a 3 round fight.

Wasn't it for the WAMMA belt?

[Mr. IWS]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

actually it was a 3 minute fight