UFC 122 Germany to air for free on Spike on November 13th

[SPX]

Re: UFC 122 Germany to air for free on Spike on November 13

The funny thing is that GIF actually shows that Chuck was really not that great of a striker. His form is actually very bad. Did he get the job done in his era...Yes. But, in the current state of MMA a guy throwing punches like he did back then never gets close to a title.

While I see what you're saying, I would point out that at the end of the day all that matters is whether or not you're effective. Consider Machida. His striking style is certainly not what people would call "textbook" striking, but it's what seems to work best for him. I don't think he would fare better if he switched to boxing-style handwork (which seems to be the default in MMA, and if you're not doing that, you're "doing it wrong.")

As for Chuck, he was beating Rashad (who went on to win the title) before the KO and was for damn sure beating Franklin. If his chin was still there, I'm sure he'd still be a contender.

[SPX]

Re: UFC 122 Germany to air for free on Spike on November 13

Just a friendly conversation. There you go trying to stir up shit.

LOL

[sbjj]

Re: UFC 122 Germany to air for free on Spike on November 13

There you go trying to stir up shit.

Sorry my bad.....

I guess trying to get everyone back on topic is stirring shit up

Just messing with you. I can not even remember what the topic was.

[zY|]

Re: UFC 122 Germany to air for free on Spike on November 13

Still think it is a fair comparison. Not like I am saying these two fighters suck. Just pointing out that alot of their impressive wins happen to come against ground fighters. Once again, i am not saying that these fighters are not great fighters. This seems to happen when something is said about a fighter that someone really likes. I think Chuck was an exceptional fighter, BUT, I also believe that he happened to be that fighter at a time that benefited him.

The funny thing is that GIF actually shows that Chuck was really not that great of a striker. His form is actually very bad. Did he get the job done in his era...Yes. But, in the current state of MMA a guy throwing punches like he did back then never gets close to a title.

Overeem has been in the K1 World Grand Prix 2 years in a row, and Chuck knocked him smooth out. Chuck always relied on his chin and reflexes, which are gone. That's the main reason he's not a top fighter anymore. If he could still take a shot, even at 40, you can bet he'd put the smackdown on some top guys.

And I'm not some huge Chuck fan, so you can discount that angle real quick. I just try not to get sucked in to revisionist history nonsense.

[sbjj]

Re: UFC 122 Germany to air for free on Spike on November 13

The funny thing is that GIF actually shows that Chuck was really not that great of a striker. His form is actually very bad. Did he get the job done in his era...Yes. But, in the current state of MMA a guy throwing punches like he did back then never gets close to a title.

While I see what you're saying, I would point out that at the end of the day all that matters is whether or not you're effective. Consider Machida. His striking style is certainly not what people would call "textbook" striking, but it's what seems to work best for him. I don't think he would fare better if he switched to boxing-style handwork (which seems to be the default in MMA, and if you're not doing that, you're "doing it wrong.")

As for Chuck, he was beating Rashad (who went on to win the title) before the KO and was for damn sure beating Franklin. If his chin was still there, I'm sure he'd still be a contender.

Chin or not, I just really do not believe Chuck would fair well in todays top tier MMA. His style just leaves himself way to open for todays game where most of the MMA fighters now know much better how to throw their fists. Machida is actually a very good striker with very good speed and excellent in and out movement. A style much more suited for todays MMA.

Chuck was beating Franklin, but it was his wild style that allowed Franklin to get that shot in. The guy just can not throw tight punches, and that style worked well in its day.

[sbjj]

Re: UFC 122 Germany to air for free on Spike on November 13

Still think it is a fair comparison. Not like I am saying these two fighters suck. Just pointing out that alot of their impressive wins happen to come against ground fighters. Once again, i am not saying that these fighters are not great fighters. This seems to happen when something is said about a fighter that someone really likes. I think Chuck was an exceptional fighter, BUT, I also believe that he happened to be that fighter at a time that benefited him.

The funny thing is that GIF actually shows that Chuck was really not that great of a striker. His form is actually very bad. Did he get the job done in his era...Yes. But, in the current state of MMA a guy throwing punches like he did back then never gets close to a title.

Overeem has been in the K1 World Grand Prix 2 years in a row, and Chuck knocked him smooth out. Chuck always relied on his chin and reflexes, which are gone. That's the main reason he's not a top fighter anymore. If he could still take a shot, even at 40, you can bet he'd put the smackdown on some top guys.

And I'm not some huge Chuck fan, so you can discount that angle real quick. I just try not to get sucked in to revisionist history nonsense.

Sorry, I just do not look at it as revisionist. Chuck was and is a sloppy striker, if you do not think he is, than we just disagree. He almost got knocked out in that Overeem fight, but he was able to take him down and Overeem gassed as usual.

the guys today know better how to take advantage of the sloppy style that Chuck utilized in his heyday. the punch that Rashad KO'd Chuck with would have KO'd prime Chuck also. It was the fact that Rashad was able to hit him with that shot that was the problem. Fighters were just not able to take advantage of Chucks holes back in the day.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC 122 Germany to air for free on Spike on November 13

I agree Chuck was more brawler than refined striker... but I disagree that Chuck is that far removed from "today's" guys. I think a prime Chuck would still be very competitive and might even be champ given the right circumstances.

I think he still beats anyone that comes to grapple. He started losing when guys started striking with him. Jardine, Rampage, Rashad, Franklin... what do all these guys have in common? Not one of them tried to take him down.

I do agree he was more brawler than technical striker though.

[sbjj]

Re: UFC 122 Germany to air for free on Spike on November 13

I agree Chuck was more brawler than refined striker... but I disagree that Chuck is that far removed from "today's" guys. I think a prime Chuck would still be very competitive and might even be champ given the right circumstances.

I think he still beats anyone that comes to grapple. He started losing when guys started striking with him. Jardine, Rampage, Rashad, Franklin... what do all these guys have in common? Not one of them tried to take him down.

I do agree he was more brawler than technical striker though.

Once again, I am not saying he sucked. I still think he was a damn good fighter, and basically created a style(sprawl and brawl). The circumstances you speak of I am sure are what I alluded to in the beginning. Chuck getting the style matchups he needs. I just firmly believe that some of these guys that we think have "lost" it, were actually just passed by ever evolving fighters. A prime Hughes always loses to a prime GSP IMO.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC 122 Germany to air for free on Spike on November 13

^ I agree that a prime GSP would beat prime Hughes... but I don't feel that a prime Rashad would beat a prime Chuck more than 50%. GSP is justa better fighter. I don't think that all the guys that beat Chuck were better fighters, or that he was passed by... more that he aged and his reflexed and chin slowed down. Also, guys figured him out because there was a lot of footage of him winning the same way over and over. So Rashad was like, you know what, I am not even going to try to take this guy down. That was the beginning of the end for Chuck.

[SPX]

Re: UFC 122 Germany to air for free on Spike on November 13

I remember Chuck and Rashad both threw mega-punches at about the same time. I wonder what would've happened if Chuck had landed first.

[Mr. IWS]

Re: UFC 122 Germany to air for free on Spike on November 13

I remember Chuck and Rashad both threw mega-punches at about the same time. I wonder what would've happened if Chuck had landed first.

I might have won my bet, instead of losing it. LOL

[SPX]

Re: UFC 122 Germany to air for free on Spike on November 13

I might have won my bet, instead of losing it. LOL

LOL

That was before my betting days, but I probably would've been on Chuck, too.

[Mr. IWS]

Re: UFC 122 Germany to air for free on Spike on November 13

I swear I lost like 5 straight bets that chuck was involved in. Didnt matter which side. If i was on him he lost, If I was on the other guy, he won.

[SPX]

Re: UFC 122 Germany to air for free on Spike on November 13

I swear I lost like 5 straight bets that chuck was involved in. Didnt matter which side. If i was on him he lost, If I was on the other guy, he won.

This is why I'm hesitant to bet on Ben Henderson. I've lost betting against him twice now, but I that as soon as I switch sides he's going to lose.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC 122 Germany to air for free on Spike on November 13

Bendo's days are numbered. None of those LW's are going to make a big splash IMO. I think Henderson/Varner/Cerrone will be md tier guys... but none will threaten for the title.