2011 Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

[flyinggogoplata]

Taxes on individuals yes but on corporations it's not even close.

The Bernie Sanders Ten, per release....
1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.

2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.

3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.

4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.

5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.

6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.

7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.

8) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.

9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.

10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2011/03/ten_giant_us_companies_avoidin.html

[flyinggogoplata]

I don't see the connection your are trying to make.

There is no connection man. I really don't know what I was thinking.

[MMA_scientist]

22k isn't even enough for a three bedroom apartment. how is that middle class? This article says 25k is where it pretty much starts.
http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-bud...d=bb-budgeting

Your article applies to a single parent with 2 children. 2 kids cost more than the $3k difference between your income and the article's $25k income.

Aside from that, I just read an article where the line was drawn under $20k. Article's vary. The article assumes a home worth $231k... how many people here live in a $231k home? Flawed article and logic are flawed.

You are middle class pal, deal with it. The only difference is that you probably pay next to nothing in taxes...

[flyinggogoplata]

You are middle class pal, deal with it.

lol so wrong. I'm not going to brag how poor I am, but Im not middle class notice how I said the MOST, as in 2008 not currently.

[MMA_scientist]

Taxes on individuals yes but on corporations it's not even close.

True with ragrd to the rebates, but that is a deal the government makes to keep these jobs here, where the socialist minimum wage has priced U.S. labor out of the competitive market. There is no reason for a large corporation to stay in the U.S., labor is more expensive, work rate is slower, and the taxes are high. So the U.S. has to agree to let these guys off the hook on the taxes or else they will leave town and take all the income tax paying employees with them.

But still, your article states that a bunch of these corporations got "tax refunds" like that is some sort of break. A tax refund means you overpaid your taxes, nothing more. It is a bad thing for these corporations, because they lent all that money to the U.S. Govt, interest free for a year. It is just your typical journalist trying to sensationalize things. Tax refunds are bad, it means you overpaid, nothing more.

[flyinggogoplata]

So what are you arguing that everything is fine except were becoming socialist?

[MMA_scientist]

lol so wrong. I'm not going to brag how poor I am, but Im not middle class notice how I said the MOST, as in 2008 not currently.

Why do you want and/or need a 3 bedroom apartment? Also, renting an apartment is more expensive than buying a house almost everywhere in the country. Of course, the cost of living matters, $22k in Manhattan is poor, you would be living in a box. But in San Antonio, you could buy a pretty nice house on that income.

[flyinggogoplata]

Yeah buying a house is so easy now. I live with 2 other people who do require rooms. Everyone I know rents because they have no other choice.

[MMA_scientist]

So what are you arguing that everything is fine except were becoming socialist?

No, the country has a lot of problems- all nations do, and moreso the more people in the nation. I am just taking issue with the point that the country somehow inherently favors rich people. Rich people have advantages, of course, they have more resources so they have advantages. But I just disagree that the government goes out of the way to stack the deck in the favor of the wealthy.

I am actually ok with a little socialism. What I hate are facist laws like requiring medical coverage for individuals (dems) and forbidding me to gamble (repubs). Basically, I am a Libertarian. But I don't blame the "evil government" for any problems. I blame the dumbass people of the U.S. We can make anything we want happen, but the people are too stupid and/or scared to make anything happen. You think the country is unfair to poor people, elect a communist, we had one run a few years ago.

[MMA_scientist]

Yeah buying a house is so easy now. I live with 2 other people who do require rooms. Everyone I know rents because they have no other choice.

So you don't need to afford a 3 bedroom because you have roommates. Buying a house is not hard. Just pay your debts, and it is no problem. Don't borrow money for stupid crap like a car. I don't think buying a house is difficult, you just have to buy one that matches your income.

[flyinggogoplata]

Also, renting an apartment is more expensive than buying a house almost everywhere in the country.

See this is my problem. You say stuff like this but honestly I couldn't think of anything harder to do in this economy then buying a house. Banks aren't loaning much out, plus paying rent and saving up for down payment is hard. Couple that with building credit which I have little of and then you need really solid employment history for banks now. That's hard to do when you keep getting laid off. I rent because I need a place to live, not because I think it's cool. I have to earn money for two other people one who is to old to work and the other who is unemployed. 22k for three adults doesn't go far at all. and like I said I'm not making 22k now that was in 2008-9.

[MMA_scientist]

Yeah buying a house is so easy now. I live with 2 other people who do require rooms. Everyone I know rents because they have no other choice.

I am not going to change your mindset... they have a choice. You have a choice. You choose not to do what you need to do to earn more money because you have found a balance that you are ok with.

Study, read, start a business, work more hours. If you wanted more, you would have more- it just is not worth the effort or risk to you. There is always a choice.

I am not judging, I have stricken that same balance in my life.

[MMA_scientist]

See this is my problem. You say stuff like this but honestly I couldn't think of anything harder to do in this economy then buying a house. Banks aren't loaning much out, plus paying rent and saving up for down payment is hard. Couple that with building credit which I have little of and then you need really solid employment history for banks now. That's hard to do when you keep getting laid off. I rent because I need a place to live, not because I think it's cool. I have to earn money for two other people one who is to old to work and the other who is unemployed. 22k for three adults doesn't go far at all. and like I said I'm not making 22k now that was in 2008-9.

There are alternatives. Buy a house on contract. Kick your roomates out and get some that pay. Live with your parents. Rent a cheaper place. Work more hours. Deliver pizza at night. Start a business picking up dogshit on the weekends. Learn a skill that has some value so you don't get laid off. Become a doctor. Sell your body on Craigslist. These are choices you are making.

[flyinggogoplata]

I am just taking issue with the point that the country somehow inherently favors rich people.

Maybe not people personally, but for sure corporations. Every new law passed has lobbyists pushing it through every step of the way. Those lobbyists aren't paid for by the people. They're paid for with corporate money and like my graph shows corporations every year are taking more and more for the board of directors and less and less for the common worker. And don't tell me stocks because that's some rigged ass shit. I know families who own a shit load of company stock by working for the company for forty years but can't retire like planned because of all the shenanigans in the stock market.

[MMA_scientist]

Maybe not people personally, but for sure corporations. Every new law passed has lobbyists pushing it through every step of the way. Those lobbyists aren't paid for by the people. They're paid for with corporate money and like my graph shows corporations every year are taking more and more for the board of directors and less and less for the common worker. And don't tell me stocks because that's some rigged ass shit. I know families who own a shit load of company stock by working for the company for forty years but can't retire like planned because of all the shenanigans in the stock market.

There are definite corporate interests driving things. That is one of the major problems for sure.

As for the stock market, it is not rigged. Timing is bad sometimes, but if you are nearing retirement you should be taking your money out of stocks and putting into less volatile investments. But yeah, it is some bullshit for sure when CEO is taking millions of dollars in salary for himself, while the taxpayers bail out the company's poor decisions. The bankruptcy laws are also some bullshit in that regard. Stupid bank makes a bad risk, and also charges their customers for the risk in the form of interest rates ... but then when the obvious default happens, they go lobby congress to toughen the bankruptcy laws so they don't have to pay the price for the stupid risk they took mailing credit card offers to every person on the planet.

There is definitely some bull shit happening with corporate lobbying. I don't deny that at all.