BJ Penn Vs Nick Diaz - UFC 137

[MMA_scientist]

I have other thoughts, I don't know. There weren't that many interesting fights on the card to me. Like next week's card, I really only care about Leben/Munoz, the rest of the card is pretty lame IMO. I hope they don't expect us to pay for that shit, is it going to be on TV for free?

[SPX]

I was surprised. BUt Griffin is retarded, he used to win by grappling. He basically tries to strike with everyone now, even though he is a 4'2" wrestler. I think he deserves his fate after coming in 4 pounds heavy and refusing to fight smart. Good call on Bart.

I've heard a lot of people say that, but how did Griffin fare in the grappling department against Dunham?

I don't think grappling is the answer. I think the level of comp has just increased. Both the LW and FW divisions are pretty far ahead of where they were talent-wise just a few years ago.

[MMA_scientist]

I've heard a lot of people say that, but how did Griffin fare in the grappling department against Dunham?

I don't think grappling is the answer. I think the level of comp has just increased. Both the LW and FW divisions are pretty far ahead of where they were talent-wise just a few years ago.

I don't really agree with that. I think prime LW BJ would beat everyone at LW. Sherk could probably beat all of these guys except maybe Edgar and Maynard. Griffin pretty much went even with Edgar when they fought, he beat Guida (not really). I think Griffin has/had the ability to hang with any LW. Dunham is just better on the ground that Griffin.

[SPX]

I don't really agree with that. I think prime LW BJ would beat everyone at LW. Sherk could probably beat all of these guys except maybe Edgar and Maynard. Griffin pretty much went even with Edgar when they fought, he beat Guida (not really). I think Griffin has/had the ability to hang with any LW. Dunham is just better on the ground that Griffin.

I'll put it this way, there was a time when the LW division was so starved for talent that Hermes Franca fought for the title. . .

[poopoo333]

I have other thoughts, I don't know. There weren't that many interesting fights on the card to me. Like next week's card, I really only care about Leben/Munoz, the rest of the card is pretty lame IMO. I hope they don't expect us to pay for that shit, is it going to be on TV for free?

Yeah, it's free on Spike but we can watch it during the day on stream.


I am pretty much caught up on the card except for the prelims:

Hioki being the #2 FW= LOL
Make Kongo vs Nelson next
I hope Diaz beats GSP.
Condit is getting fucked...hopefully he gets a favorable match up.
Cro Cop has been KO'd in the 3rd round in his last 3 fights.

[zY|]

I don't really agree with that. I think prime LW BJ would beat everyone at LW.

So when exactly was "prime LW BJ"?

I think it's far more simple. When BJ wins, he dominates and looks awesome. When he fights someone with the skills to compete with him, he wilts, looks like shit, and quits. The cardio angle is a huge fallacy imo. No, he's never going to have the conditioning of a Nick Diaz or a GSP(solely physiologically, I'd say), but he never gasses when he's winning fights. He didn't even look a little tired vs Florian or Diego, fights that went long with both guys trying to tire him out. He didn't gas vs Uno or Pulver 100 years ago. When he's in a competitive fight he ends up mentally checking out and just stands there not doing a whole lot. Quick, when's the last time BJ Penn won a close fight? Matt Serra back in 2002?

I just think he's losing to better fighters. He got shutout by Frank Edgar in the rematch, conditioning had nothing to do with it. Got thrown on his head twice in the first round. Actually his best moments of that fight were in the 4th and 5th with his takedowns and back control.

That said, clearly he's not in great shape at welterweight and he never belonged there to begin with. He has the offensive skills to compete for awhile but he can't hang around long term with guys at that weight. I wonder how differently his career would've gone had he not gotten his signature victory over Hughes in 2004 and decided he was invincible.

Also getting your ass kicked tires you out.

[zY|]

Also, I could really not give a fuck about Carlos Condit's feelings. GSP/Diaz is the fight I and everyone else want to see. Give it to me.

[Svino]

So when exactly was "prime LW BJ"?

I don't think Penn was ever better than he was against Florian and Diego. He looked Anderson-Silva-type-unbeatable after those fights. There was a good reason Edgar was an insane underdog for the first fight.

The cardio angle is a huge fallacy imo. No, he's never going to have the conditioning of a Nick Diaz or a GSP(solely physiologically, I'd say), but he never gasses when he's winning fights.

It's pretty clear he has cardio problems. He was beating Fitch and then he gassed. He was beating Diaz and then he gassed even sooner. Sure, the cardio issues don't really show up if his opponent isn't putting up a fight at all, but I think that's normal.

[Vandelay]

Bullshit. conitioning has nothing to do with someones physiological makeup. If bj went through diaz' training his conitionion would be just as good. He obviously just doesnt give a shit about it. Mayb he should of stuck wtih the marinovich guy. Once he dumped him he wasnt as good physically.

[SPX]

Bullshit conitioning is a physiological issue. If bj went through diaz' training his conitionion would be just as good.

To be fair, can you give any real evidence for this?

I mean, can everyone lift weights (and even take steroids) and look like Arnold Schwarzenegger? Don't you think that genetics plays a role in regard to a person's body?

[Mr. IWS]

So when exactly was "prime LW BJ"?

I think it's far more simple. When BJ wins, he dominates and looks awesome. When he fights someone with the skills to compete with him, he wilts, looks like shit, and quits. The cardio angle is a huge fallacy imo. No, he's never going to have the conditioning of a Nick Diaz or a GSP(solely physiologically, I'd say), but he never gasses when he's winning fights. He didn't even look a little tired vs Florian or Diego, fights that went long with both guys trying to tire him out. He didn't gas vs Uno or Pulver 100 years ago. When he's in a competitive fight he ends up mentally checking out and just stands there not doing a whole lot. Quick, when's the last time BJ Penn won a close fight? Matt Serra back in 2002?

I just think he's losing to better fighters. He got shutout by Frank Edgar in the rematch, conditioning had nothing to do with it. Got thrown on his head twice in the first round. Actually his best moments of that fight were in the 4th and 5th with his takedowns and back control.

That said, clearly he's not in great shape at welterweight and he never belonged there to begin with. He has the offensive skills to compete for awhile but he can't hang around long term with guys at that weight. I wonder how differently his career would've gone had he not gotten his signature victory over Hughes in 2004 and decided he was invincible.

Also getting your ass kicked tires you out.

For a second there, I thought you where talking about Mir.

[poopoo333]

To be fair, can you give any real evidence for this?

I mean, can everyone lift weights (and even take steroids) and look like Arnold Schwarzenegger? Don't you think that genetics plays a role in regard to a person's body?

I agree, not everybody can reach the same level of conditioning. Some people are more gifted than others.

[Mr. IWS]

Kinda sucks for Condit here.

-GSP gets hurt, so he doesnt get his title shot Saturday night
-The way Penn looked, condit probably would have beat him if he would have kept that fight originally
-Now he doesnt get a win over penn to strenghten his resume, and doenst get his title shot.

[poopoo333]

Condit will probably fight GSP next, Diaz is gonna fail his drug test for smoking weed

[Vandelay]

Your telling me someone who should be running multiple miles a day, doing sprints, swimming, etc. cant last 15-25 minutes in a cage every 3 or 4 months. I'm sorry but any athlete should be able to condition themselves to last that long. Now maybe their are other factors such as anxiety or improper breathing patterns or something, but theres no reason a professional athlete who gets paid to fight can't be conditioned. Conditioning isn't something thats fun, it's something that is required to succeed in a sport.