Ufc 130

[poopoo333]

Jon Jones is apparently close to making his return to action to defend his light heavyweight title for the first time, as he may be penciled in to battle Quinton Jackson at the upcoming UFC 135 event, which is currently rumored for Sept. 24 at the Pepsi Center in Denver, Colorado.
A source close to one of the fight camps alerted MMAmania.com to the news earlier today, but stressed that obstacles exist. Jones, who is still resting a hand injury, must first be cleared by his physician before getting the green light to compete.
The same goes for "Rampage," who was recently medically suspended until June 28 but could stretch as far as Nov. 25 unless he gets clearance from an orthopedic doctor.

[poopoo333]

Despite broken leg, UFC's Demetrious Johnson expects a speedy return

[MMA_scientist]

UFC 130 Aftermath: Johnson vs Torres Under Submission Grappling Scoring

Thanks I hadn't seen that. I thought it would be a wider margin, but I was thinking there were more takedowns. I take issue with half guard being a positional advance though... a lot of guys sweep better from half guard (not torres) and half guard is hard to define. Some buterfly could be considered a half guard...

That said, you can't score MMA like a grappling match. The match would have been totally different under grappling rules... for one, Torres would have pulled guard most likely and negated the points for the takedown. For two, Torres would not have had such urgency to escape and thus probably would not have been passed. He really was not so much passed as his submission attempt got thrown off. Torres would beat DJ in a grappling match, no question. BUt this is MMA. I was just making the point that DJ was trying to advance his position, unlike a lot of guys on top.

[poopoo333]

In fact, if it was a grappling match, DJ would have won by a large margin.

UFC 130 Aftermath: Johnson vs Torres Under Submission Grappling Scoring

[MMA_scientist]

I think the criteria as simply stated in words is open to so wide an interpretation that the only way to understand how MMA fights are truly judged is to go by actual experience.

I don't think that is correct. The good judges (Blatnick) have always scored fights correctly. We can't let guys like Cecil Peeples set a precedence that has to be followed. The law is what it is... it is the job of the individual judge to apply the law to the facts. The rules don't give a preference to top position, just because it is consistently applied incorrectly, doesn't mean that it "creates law" that must be followed. The site journalists sadly know much more about MMA than most of the judges. The problem is that we just need some judges that know what they are looking at.

As Luke mentioned, it happens in striking battles too (Sanchez/Kampmann, anything involving Garcia)... aggression is a criteria (zY will be in shortly to tell us all the actual criteria), but it should not outweight actual effective striking. Also, taking a guy down and holding him is like the opposite of aggression, it is stalling. It is not effective grappling, it is a big nothing. I think they should get credit for the takedown just for dictating where it will go (but no more credit than a guard pull unless it does some damage). After that, you get nothing for just being on top.

As I said on fight night, DJ did pass guard, and much of the time he was working on guard passing. In fact, if it was a grappling match, DJ would have won by a large margin. I am not blaming him... It just pisses me off because it is so wrong and easily mended.

[SPX]

I agree that it's open to interpretation and subjective judgment.

[Svino]

Well to be fair, if they're judging via the actual criteria that's in place, then I don't see what the problem is.

I think the criteria as simply stated in words is open to so wide an interpretation that the only way to understand how MMA fights are truly judged is to go by actual experience.

[SPX]

Well to be fair, if they're judging via the actual criteria that's in place, then I don't see what the problem is.

[Svino]

I don't like it when journalists call fights according to their own criteria as opposed to how the fights are actually going to be scored. What the Sherdog guys do on their site isn't judging, it's activism. I may agree with them on preferences, but you've gotta judge the sport that exists, not the one you wish existed.

[Luke]

"Sorry guys, I fucked up and let the judges decide my fate. Johnson did a good job and had a great game plan... Rewatched my fight, think I won based on effective attacks, sweeps & position control... Thanks to Sherdog, Heavy, Bloody Elbow, & MMAJunkie for scoring the fight in my favor. Bad judging can't hold me down, I will be back." -Miguel Torres, Johnson was just defending all through out, I still think Torres should've won.


"Sherdog(all 3 Judges) Bloody Elbow, Heavymma and MMA rising all gave the fight to Miguel Torres. What did you guys think? ...Over 2500 people voted on who they think won between Torres and Johnson. 77% say Torres... Its a shame the judges don't seem to understand the ground game." -Firas Zahabi, Yep. They should learn that being on top is an advantage in a sense that it is easier to score points, but it doesn't really mean that you already are.

We know judges give rds to the guy on top all the time so I don't know what else to say.MMA judges blow and always have but we do know they give rds to the guy being agressive and missing than to the guy backing up and connecting on punches , we also know they will give rds to the guy on top rather than the guy actually doing work. Its not right but that's how things are, I've been burned myself plenty of times the same way

[SPX]

Well my 3u that I lost agrees with all of that shit.

[MMA_scientist]

"Sorry guys, I fucked up and let the judges decide my fate. Johnson did a good job and had a great game plan... Rewatched my fight, think I won based on effective attacks, sweeps & position control... Thanks to Sherdog, Heavy, Bloody Elbow, & MMAJunkie for scoring the fight in my favor. Bad judging can't hold me down, I will be back." -Miguel Torres, Johnson was just defending all through out, I still think Torres should've won.


"Sherdog(all 3 Judges) Bloody Elbow, Heavymma and MMA rising all gave the fight to Miguel Torres. What did you guys think? ...Over 2500 people voted on who they think won between Torres and Johnson. 77% say Torres... Its a shame the judges don't seem to understand the ground game." -Firas Zahabi, Yep. They should learn that being on top is an advantage in a sense that it is easier to score points, but it doesn't really mean that you already are.

[poopoo333]

When you bet on Japan MMA, you have to forget the "guy on top is winning" mentality, because they don't give a shit over there.

After reading the play by play, this is why I lost the Ishida bet.

[MMA_scientist]

I wouldn't say that Torres got "royally screwed." It was a close fight. But I do think Torres won.

You can't let yourself be controlled like that, though. I do kind of agree with the logic that if you can't get up--if you are forced to stay where you are and can't determine where the fight goes--then you are losing except in rare circumstances. But with Torres's reversals, strikes from the bottom, and sub attempts I think he did enough to win.

I agree with that rationale if nothing is happening. But if you are forced to a position, and then do more from that spot... you are winning. Actual strikes and attacks should outweigh "octagon control." It is like control is the #1 criteria for these guys.

Aside from that, Torres was hardly stuck... in round 1, he spent over 3 minutes on top (more that DJ), he had mount, he landed more shots. Round 2 Torres was on bottom most of the time, but he was dictating the action. In the same way that DJ forced it to the mat, Torres forced DJ to defend most of the round. In round 3, Torres was on top again for part of the round, he threatened with a triangle. He landed more strikes in every round.

Basically, he won the fight. It was close, but only because of the retarded scoring system. The Japanese know how to score grappling better IMO, but they are just so inconsistent and shady. When you bet on Japan MMA, you have to forget the "guy on top is winning" mentality, because they don't give a shit over there.

[Thewisemann]

Torres won the fight. I scored it 30-28. Judges suck. I watched Phan/Garcia the other day, it was horrible, I hsve no idea how Garcia got that.