UFC 134 Rio de Janeiro Aug 27th

[poopoo333]

[AC88]

I think Forrest's standup defense is too solid to get picked apart by Shogun. Getting picked apart by Silva: yes, but by Shogun? Nah. IMO this fight is going to be based on conditioning and stand up, which IMO Griffin will have the advantage in. Shogun is not the same Shogun who popped in for his debut wrestling with Forrest. IMO this will be a striking match mixed with quick trips and takedowns from both. Forrest UD hopefully.

[Svino]

There is a chance that Rua could pick Forrest apart on the feet, but at these lines, I definitely like Griffin as the bet.

I know I mentioned Nedkov as a possible bet, but I was expecting a much steeper line. I stand by what I said earlier, but when I saw Cane open at only -180, I thought the value was on Cane. At this point, I think the line is pretty well set and I will probably stay away from that fight.

[edman5555]

i would take forrest if i had to pick though, because of the lines

[edman5555]

I am split on the Forrest Shogun fight.

[poopoo333]

I really didn't think Griffin's line would get this good. I thought +180 was going to be the best line and that Griffin would be like +150 by fight time or worse.

[Ludo]

I must have misunderstood the question. I thought you were asking why fighters are more susceptible to being knocked out after that first initial big one. I have no idea what it is that actually happens in the brain during those moments. I imagine the only way to find out would be to have someone hooked up to machines as he's being pummeled into a living death in order to figure out what exactly happens in there but even then it could be inconclusive without multiple test subjects. Seems like an unethical study to perform, so I doubt we'll ever know without some kind of new benign way of determining it as technology gets better.

[SPX]

Well that does seem to be the case. I just wish I knew more about it.

I actually talked to a doctor not that long ago about concussions and brain injuries and it's apparently a very mysterious subject. Even the doctors aren't really sure exactly what happens or why.

[Ludo]

I wonder what the scientific explanation is for a fighter wearing down like that. . .

Obviously it happens, but why?

I think it's like any other recurring injury. If you pop your shoulder out once it's more likely to happen again, and just like that if your knocked the fuck out after suffering alot of brain trauma your more likely to have it done again.

[Ludo]

Joe Rogan out of UFC134, Kenny Florian steps in replace him

[SPX]

I wonder what the scientific explanation is for a fighter wearing down like that. . .

Obviously it happens, but why?

[sbjj]

This guy got knocked out by roy nelson, outstruck gonzaga, and had to push cro cop against the fence for the majority of their fight. Lets not annoint put him in the same class as overeem just yet.

Mir had to push CC against the cage far more than Schaub did. It is not like CC can not still bang a bit with someone just willing to stand with him. And CC still has a better chin than Nog IMO.

I think this ends pretty bad for Nog.

[Ludo]

I think it's less that we're building Schaub up and more that we're being realistic about Nogueira's deterioration as a durable fighter after all these years of brutal wars he's taken more damage than thought possible in. It's not totally unfeasible that Minotauro can drag Schaub down and lock up a submission that Schaub can't get out of. But it's much more likely that Minotauro just isn't the zombie he used to be anymore and can't take the kind of beating he used to be able to without batting an eye.

[Ludo]

This guy got knocked out by roy nelson, outstruck gonzaga, and had to push cro cop against the fence for the majority of their fight. Lets not annoint put him in the same class as overeem just yet.

I don't really think the Nelson thing was a total detriment. The reason Nelson was able to do what he did to Schaub was the threat of the takedown. Just like how Werdum was able to light Overeem up a few times. The constant threat of a takedown creates openings up top. Nelson likes to use that bully style where he'll follow you around trying to close the distance for a clinch or a single leg and after a few of those your wary, the next time he comes in it's with an overhand right.

The Gonzaga fight was actually great performance. Gonzaga hasn't exactly been a total bust standing up. He did break Cro Cop and almost knock Carwin out.

As far as Cro Cop goes that was a tough stylistic fight for Schaub and so he had to impliment some gameplanning instead of just sitting outside like he prefers. The problem there is Cro Cop is also an outside fighter, and a dangerous one at that. If you allow Mirko to sit on the outside all night your going to be eating kicks for as long as your able to keep standing or until the final bell rings.

I don't think anyone is acting like Schaub is the next Overeem or anything. But he is clearly a very quick fighter and has crisp hands with more than enough power to get the job done.

[Ludo]

Since UFC 128:

Schaub beat Cro Cop
Jones beat Shogun
Davis beat Lil Nog
Machida beat Couture (not sure if this counts since Machida really isn't an up and comer)
Rory MacDonald beat Diaz (also not sure if this counts, but it was a prospect vs vet type of deal)
Story beat Alves
Mighty Mouse beat Torres

The only fights where the more well known "vet" beat the up and comer prospect since then was Guida over Pettis, Florian over Nunes, and Tito over Bader..oh and Ludwig over Amir

Good points, but like you I wouldn't consider Machida an up and comer since he was Champion already. I also wouldn't consider Guida a true veteran just because he's still improving and adding new facets to his game. Most of the time "veterans" have already peaked and are in the journeymen kind of roles. Being fed to up and comers with the intention of gaging how good the new fighter actually is, or relegated to fan fights rather than meaningful title contention type fights. When I think Veteran I think Matt Hughes types of guys but he's a bit of an extreme example at this point.

I think we are in the middle of a period where the guys who were great five and six years ago are starting to fade and the new crop of fighters is getting more well rounded every day. We'll start seeing alot of former fixtures in the sport getting snuffed out by relatively new talent. These guys now are total animals and whats better is there are far more places to train now. You can go to multiple camps and train with some of the best in the world almost anywhere with techniques designed for MMA.