BJ Penn Vs Nick Diaz - UFC 137

[edman5555]

yeah but how many guys take jon fitchs back?

[Vandelay]

A wrecking ball that couldnt keep fitch's back twice. he's nothing special off his back and wont sub you from there. Only threat off his back is the sweep.

[edman5555]

yeah that is what i thought you would say. It still is impressive that he did it at 20 years old though. that is pretty uncommon. He is like a wrecking ball on the ground though.

[MMA_scientist]

you think the game has progressed since then?

Yeah. I mean, you have the same stuff now that you had then, but there are more people competing, and the stakes are higher. So the competitions are tougher. It is like being an MMA champion in 2000 as opposed to today. Both sports are still growing, so pretty much every year, the competition is going to keep getting tougher, until the participation and stakes level out like more established combat sports (boxing, wrestling, judo- I have no doubts that some of the guys from older generations would kill the new guys). In the more established sports, you can truly have conversations about who would win in their primes- Ali or Tyson, Sanderson or Gable... In bjj and MMA, whoever is the champ now is pretty much the greatest ever IMO.

[edman5555]

you think the game has progressed since then?

[MMA_scientist]

I don't think he is as good of a grappler as BJ by any means. But you have to be considerably better than someone to get a dominant position and hold it long enough to submit them. BJ really doesn't pull out submissions from bottom. He has very strong guard passing though. Nick is squirmy, and he plays guard, which means BJ would have to pass, mount, and get Nick to turn his back on him. I don't think Nick will ever show his back. I don't think I have seen nick trying to stand up. I think BJ may run the "score" up on him by passing his guard, but I think Nick will be able to survive. Just my opinion, I could definitely be wrong. BJ's grappling is slightly overrated IMO. I know he is a world champion, but that was a different time.

[edman5555]

ah really? Is Nick really that good on the ground? Why do you think so? I know he has subbed some guys and all that but I figured some of it was hype.

[MMA_scientist]

I have no doubt BJ can get Nick down. I have my doubts as to whether he can take his back though. Nick is solid on the ground, I doubt BJ subs him... but yeah, it could happen. I don't think anyone had subbed Florian before BJ either. It would have to be around +1500 for me, I don't think he would sub him more than one out of 15 fights...

[edman5555]

i would think bj can submit nick too. before you call me crazy consider this: i know nick wont tap. However, BJ almost always goes for the rear naked. If he gets that on Nick he will either cause Nick to tap or go out. If he goes out BJ gets the sub win. I'm not saying it will happen but I think it def could. The odds on it might be decent as well considering Nick is thought of as a guy that never taps. If Bj can take down Fitch and get his back I think he can do it to Nick..That may have been a lucky td for BJ but it might not have been. Either way I will be betting BJ.

[MMA_scientist]

I think BJ is a better striker, has better takedowns and T3D, and is also a better mat grappler. Nick has cardio.

The way Nick walks forward, I think BJ is going to tag him a lot standing.

[edman5555]

bj vs diaz has to be a 3 rounder. the 5 rounder non titles are only for main events right? Bj wins a 3 rounder pretty easy IMO because he can take nick down and he is much better on the ground. Nick "may' be better standing but I sure dont consider bj easy to ko standing. funny how bj opens at -365 and gets bet almost to even.

[sideloaded]

[poopoo333]

Matt Mitrione: http://lockerz.com/s/137317975

[edman5555]

so will i. I am only worried about Nick getting cut. I think he had a surgery to clear that up though.

[Thewisemann]

I will be heavy on Penn and GSP DEC