2011 Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

[Svino]

It's kind of like what lies at the bottom of the ocean. Nobody knows what is and isn't down there because nobody can go down there to see for themselves.

Oh, we go down there. There's some pretty cool shit:

http://tinyurl.com/d4etqrf

Even children grasp the concept of death, and that while they may not understand why it happens, that it does indeed occur.

I think the heavy prevalence of the "afterlife" concept belies this. People resist an actual understanding of death with all their will. For good reason, I suppose. Nonexistence is scary.

[SPX]

Given how little we understand about the world and about ourselves in the grand scope I don't rule it out as a possibility. Like anything else that hasn't been proven for a fact by science in the sense that it can't be recreated on a whim there are skeptics and believers and some who are inbetween and even some who are indifferent. It's kind of like what lies at the bottom of the ocean. Nobody knows what is and isn't down there because nobody can go down there to see for themselves. We have people who swear they have experienced things otherwise unexplainable if not by supernatural phenomena. Even by a strictly scientific outlook it's hard to exclude certain anomalies in nature, especially things like deja vu, creativity, and out of body experiences.

I agree.

The thing is, these anomalous events happen on a grander scale than many people recognize, or perhaps want to admit. I've never personally had anything happen to me that I would consider particularly unexplainable, but I know at least 5 people with stories that science has no explanation for. That doesn't mean that there is no scientific explanation . . . but the explanation may involve science that we are not currently aware of.

[SPX]

I think the heavy prevalence of the "afterlife" concept belies this. People resist an actual understanding of death with all their will. For good reason, I suppose. Nonexistence is scary.

You see, I suspect it may be the other way around.

There's a lot of documentation throughout the centuries that suggests that humans have undergone what we now term the "near-death experience" and I think that this may be where the idea of an afterlife comes from.

[Ludo]

Oh, we go down there. There's some pretty cool shit:

http://tinyurl.com/d4etqrf

I meant that we can't go to the bottom of the sea with any kind of frequency or grid system in order to see at least a good portion of whats there

I think the heavy prevalence of the "afterlife" concept belies this. People resist an actual understanding of death with all their will. For good reason, I suppose. Nonexistence is scary.

People try to resist the concept that nothingness awaits because nobody wants that to be them or they're loved ones. They want to believe life has a purpose and that we are working toward something or for something in the end. If there was nothing after death the even scarier question "what is life for anyway?" must be faced. Better to tell ourselves something or someone is waiting at the end than to go through life questioning whether our small existence will even make a mark in our own immediate surroundings.

[zY|]

I agree.

The thing is, these anomalous events happen on a grander scale than many people recognize, or perhaps want to admit. I've never personally had anything happen to me that I would consider particularly unexplainable, but I know at least 5 people with stories that science has no explanation for. That doesn't mean that there is no scientific explanation . . . but the explanation may involve science that we are not currently aware of.

The explanation is most often that they are delusional.

[zY|]

People try to resist the concept that nothingness awaits because nobody wants that to be them or they're loved ones. They want to believe life has a purpose and that we are working toward something or for something in the end. If there was nothing after death the even scarier question "what is life for anyway?" must be faced. Better to tell ourselves something or someone is waiting at the end than to go through life questioning whether our small existence will even make a mark in our own immediate surroundings.

But there's no reason to believe it, other than comfort.

[SPX]

The explanation is most often that they are delusional.

That's the easy explanation.

Just because it's never happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[zY|]

That's the easy explanation.

Just because it's never happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

True, but that doesn't mean I should believe it, either. Humans are unreliable. Anecdotal evidence is not evidence.

[SPX]

True, but that doesn't mean I should believe it, either. Humans are unreliable. Anecdotal evidence is not evidence.

Well, I do definitely agree that humans are unreliable, or at least human memory is.

But I don't agree that anecdotal evidence is not evidence. I mean, if my dead grandmother appeared to me right now and we had a 20 minute conversation and I told you about it and you came back with "humans are unreliable" and "anecdotal evidence is not evidence" then I'd just call you an asshole.

I mean, do you ever ask someone, "How was your day?"

[Ludo]

[SPX]

Looks awesome.

I'd buy it on PPV.

[zY|]

Well, I do definitely agree that humans are unreliable, or at least human memory is.

But I don't agree that anecdotal evidence is not evidence. I mean, if my dead grandmother appeared to me right now and we had a 20 minute conversation and I told you about it and you came back with "humans are unreliable" and "anecdotal evidence is not evidence" then I'd just call you an asshole.

So if you came up and told me that, what would the proper response, in your eyes, be? Because I'd probably be speechless and avoid your crazy ass.

I mean, do you ever ask someone, "How was your day?"

What?

[Svino]

But I don't agree that anecdotal evidence is not evidence.

Fair, but I think an adequate correction would be. "Anecdotal evidence is extremely weak evidence." As in, so weak to be negligible when up against other facts that make it implausible.

I hope I can at least get you to believe this much: If there really were another sort of parallel world poking through into this one (in the form of visible ghosts, angels, eternal souls, etc.) it would be by far the most fascinating scientific discovery ever, and scientists all over the world would be flocking to study it as soon as the slightest bit of evidence in its favor presented itself. The idea that the global scientific response to evidence for these phenomena would be to turn a blind eye out of sheer dogmatism and stubbornness is nuts.

[zY|]

A fantastic read on the matter.

[Svino]

A fantastic read on the matter.

I quite agree. Sagan's best book, I think.