UFC 129 toronto GSP-Shields

[MMA_scientist]

Not sure where you came up with that figure about 2 years for a Judo blackbelt.

Just from reading online. A lot of judo guys in the grappling forum say that in Japan, it is about 1 year of regular training for a bb. Also there are a lot of paths to bb... I know a guy who basically got his bb by taking his daughter to a lot of tournaments (at least that is how he described it). He trains also, but you get "points" for doing certain things like competing and coaching... Anyway, I have first hand knowledge but from sources I trust I have heard that in Japan it can be done in 1 year.

[poopoo333]

I become a bigger fan of him every time he does an interview.

[poopoo333]

[SPX]

I don't know, I always saw judo as viable. I think the difference is that "judo black belt" or 1st dan or whatever they call it, really doesn't mean much or earn the respect the way a bjj bb does. I think that is fair though, as you can get a judo blackbelt in a couple of years of regular training, whereas a bjj bb would GENERALLY require 8-12 years of regular training. I mean a lot of these bjj guys from brazil are also judo blackbelts (little known fact, Judo is actually more popular in Brazil than BJJ). But when someone comes in with actual judo cred (not just rank) it is talked about.

Not sure where you came up with that figure about 2 years for a Judo blackbelt. When I used to train, there was a guy there who trained 5 days a week. If the doors were open and a class was going in, he was in it, and I remember the instructor telling me that this guy would probably make it to black belt in 3 years. For the average 2 or 3 nights a week kind of person, it would be more like 5 or 6 years. Coming from a ATA TKD background where you really can get a black belt in like two years, that seems like a shitload of time to me to get to a point where "the basics have been learned and now deeper knowledge can begin."

Regarding you seeing judo as viable, I don't doubt that's the case, but you've trained in it and have a lot of grappling experience. I think that most people just didn't know much about it, and just knew that it was some older Asian martial art, so it can't possibly be worth anything.

As for tai chi and aikido... I think they can be successful in the same way capoeira has some practitioners. It gives you balance and coordination. If you also know what you are doing for real and not just Aikido, you can start to add in some crazy techniques like Anderson Silva does. But as for an actual base style that is functional, I really do not see that happening. There are some things that just are not viable, and Aikido is one of those things. It can help in the same way yoga or ballet or gymnastics helps. They don't even train resistance... so I dont' see how it can be effective. It is like saying cardio kickboxing or tae bo is effective, minus the cardio.

I don't know. I think one thing that may be true about a lot of the more traditional styles is that only a handful of people really possess the necessary physical and mental attributes to make them successful. I watched that Aikido vid and it wasn't like a lot of what I've seen where a guy will punch and leave his arm out there and then the other guy will react against a compliant opponent. It was at least fluid. Where he strikes to the throat and then immediately goes for a throw looked realistic to me. I could see someone who has very good reaction time and who has drilled this sort of thing to the point to where it's second nature actually be able to make it work, especially against some untrained average street person.

I never saw karate as the same type of thing. To me, there are core arts that you know are effective: Wrestling, BJJ, Judo, Sambo, Muy Thai, kickboxing, Boxing. Then there are arts you think could work if trained properly, in that category I put Karate, Savate, Kung Fu, TKD, Japanese Jujitsu, and a few other things. Then there is stuff that is just bullshit, like ninjitsu, Aikido and anything decribed as "too deadly for mma."

I agree that the way an art is trained has a lot to do with it. That's why I got out of that bullshit TKD class that I started last summer. It was terrible and I quickly butted heads with the instructor. It was bad enough to where they told other instructors not to teach me because I wouldn't respect them or respect taekwondo. But that's not true at all, as everyone here knows. I respect TKD and I think that TKD can be an effective martial art, both for the ring and the street. But I don't respect the way that most schools that teach traditional martial arts don't teach those styles in a way that's realistic or that leads to effective fighting skills.

Many traditional styles really have become martial arts for women and children, but not because they're not useful fighting forms. It's because these schools have been overrun by hobbyists who just want to get in shape and teachers who either a) have given in and realized that these are the sorts of classes they have to teach in order to stay in business, or b) have lost touch with reality and don't realize that their systems have to be pressure tested.

By the way, regarding ninjutsu, I actually have trained with a guy who has rank in To Shin Do, which is basically traditional togakure-ryu ninjutsu repackaged for modern audiences. I actually think there is some useful stuff there. He was showing it me some stuff a few months ago and I have to admit I was more impressed than I expected to be. And it really is pure self-defense kind of stuff. It wouldn't translate well into MMA, but I could see a person defending themself with it in situation where there are no rules.

I guess I am just jaded from seeing so many of these clowns steal money from thier minions and teach them nothing while lying to them. About 6 times a year someone with a TMA background will wander into the gym any just be shocked that they are totally helpless... I generally think that most TMA people are scam artists. Many of these guys prey upon the type of people who seek that stuff out and then fill their heads with nonsense. It sia cult mentality, and when I see these Aikido guys flying across the room because of the master's touch, it irritates me.

I agree. That goes back to a lot of what I was saying earlier. And you're right, there really is a cultish mentality in a lot of situations. I've encountered this several times. Luckily there are still some good and open-minded teachers out there who are keeping it real, so to speak.

[zY|]

I looked up Emmanuel Lewis and I still have no idea who he is.

[Svino]

Just read the comments in this video... that pretty much sums up everything you need to know about Aikido

Reading comments like that always makes me long for the old-school days of style vs. style UFC events. It also makes me frustrated that we can't get more of these people involved in MMA betting.

I have a friend who has been into Aikido for a decade or so. I have to suppress my eye-rolls around him, although they do some actual sparring. He clearly does have some skill in what I would call "Judo", but I'm sure he's picked it up at a far far slower rate than if he were training it properly.

[MMA_scientist]

Just read the comments in this video... that pretty much sums up everything you need to know about Aikido

:

[MMA_scientist]

I don't think anyone really shit on Judo, but there just wasn't much talk about it. And the Judo stylists who entered in the early UFCs didn't do that hot. But today I hear quite a bit about Judo on forums and shit. One thing I've noticed is that it only takes one or two guys who use a style successfully in MMA for that style to suddenly be respected in the fan community. "He's a 3rd degree Shotokan blackbelt" either would go unmentioned as any sort of legitimate credential for MMA a few years ago, or it would be said derisively. I think there's still a good bit of that, but the situation is certainly different now than it used to be.

I don't know, I always saw judo as viable. I think the difference is that "judo black belt" or 1st dan or whatever they call it, really doesn't mean much or earn the respect the way a bjj bb does. I think that is fair though, as you can get a judo blackbelt in a couple of years of regular training, whereas a bjj bb would GENERALLY require 8-12 years of regular training. I mean a lot of these bjj guys from brazil are also judo blackbelts (little known fact, Judo is actually more popular in Brazil than BJJ). But when someone comes in with actual judo cred (not just rank) it is talked about.

As for tai chi and aikido... I think they can be successful in the same way capoeira has some practitioners. It gives you balance and coordination. If you also know what you are doing for real and not just Aikido, you can start to add in some crazy techniques like Anderson Silva does. But as for an actual base style that is functional, I really do not see that happening. There are some things that just are not viable, and Aikido is one of those things. It can help in the same way yoga or ballet or gymnastics helps. They don't even train resistance... so I dont' see how it can be effective. It is like saying cardio kickboxing or tae bo is effective, minus the cardio.

I never saw karate as the same type of thing. To me, there are core arts that you know are effective: Wrestling, BJJ, Judo, Sambo, Muy Thai, kickboxing, Boxing. Then there are arts you think could work if trained properly, in that category I put Karate, Savate, Kung Fu, TKD, Japanese Jujitsu, and a few other things. Then there is stuff that is just bullshit, like ninjitsu, Aikido and anything decribed as "too deadly for mma."

I guess I am just jaded from seeing so many of these clowns steal money from thier minions and teach them nothing while lying to them. About 6 times a year someone with a TMA background will wander into the gym any just be shocked that they are totally helpless... I generally think that most TMA people are scam artists. Many of these guys prey upon the type of people who seek that stuff out and then fill their heads with nonsense. It sia cult mentality, and when I see these Aikido guys flying across the room because of the master's touch, it irritates me.

[Ludo]

LOL. Fun fact: Emanuelle Lewis is a 1st degree black-belt in TKD under Billy Blanks.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...0/ai_78790434/

I didn't know they gave out belts in Tae Bo.

[Svino]

Emanuelle Lewis looks about the same too.

LOL. Fun fact: Emanuelle Lewis is a 1st degree black-belt in TKD under Billy Blanks.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_15_100/ai_78790434/

[Ludo]

Yeah, Ralph Macchio in particular. Dude is in his mid-late 40s and I could have easily confused him for a guy in his 20s there.

Emanuelle Lewis looks about the same too.

[Svino]

Those guys really don't look much older than they did 25 years ago.

Yeah, Ralph Macchio in particular. Dude is in his mid-late 40s and I could have easily confused him for a guy in his 20s there.

[SPX]

They reunited most of the Karate Kid cast for this one:

This was pretty cool. Thanks for posting. The tournament scene at the end was bad ass.

Those guys really don't look much older than they did 25 years ago.

[SPX]

I don't think anyone really shit on Judo, but there just wasn't much talk about it. And the Judo stylists who entered in the early UFCs didn't do that hot. But today I hear quite a bit about Judo on forums and shit. One thing I've noticed is that it only takes one or two guys who use a style successfully in MMA for that style to suddenly be respected in the fan community. "He's a 3rd degree Shotokan blackbelt" either would go unmentioned as any sort of legitimate credential for MMA a few years ago, or it would be said derisively. I think there's still a good bit of that, but the situation is certainly different now than it used to be.

[Svino]

Was anyone ever really crapping on Judo? Let's face it, the BJJ moves are all in the Judo library, they just train with a different emphasis. Also, Sambo isn't really that different from Judo, and there's Fedor.