2011 Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

[SPX]

Re: the Occupy Wall Street movement. . .

I don't necessarily agree with the things they are all about, but I will say that it's kind of refreshing to see a group of people use the right to protest on a wide scale. That is, it's nice to see someone actually DOING something instead of just talking about doing something.

We need more of that in general.

[sbjj]

The current tax structure is an enormous contributor to the rising wealth inequality in the US.

But your party wants to make it even worse.

[SPX]

The idea that they can just simply elect politicians not subject to Wall Street's temptations (in significant numbers) is naive. sbjj is right: people are sheep, and dollars buy propaganda, which buys votes. The problem is that most politicians who would even think of turning their back on WS can't hope to get elected, regardless of what is really best for most of the country.

This is true. Thinking otherwise is a pipe dream.

The only way out is a complete revolution, and that will never happen, because even though people are discontent, they're not discontent enough to risk their lives or risk going to prison.

[MMA_scientist]

Sure, but you understand the difference between something that is "talked about" and something that has been fixed to satisfaction. We've been talking about "the economy" since forever too, so I guess we should just stop talking about it now?

The idea that they can just simply elect politicians not subject to Wall Street's temptations (in significant numbers) is naive. sbjj is right: people are sheep, and dollars buy propaganda, which buys votes. The problem is that most politicians who would even think of turning their back on WS can't hope to get elected, regardless of what is really best for most of the country.

I have no problem with the premise and I agree than campaign finance reform needs to happen. I just don't think that is what is happening here in these protests... they are just out there with the signs and the stomping bitching about whatever random thought pops in their heads. I just think the whole protest is pretty stupid and pointless. If they want to protest to bring awareness to campaign finance and llobbying- great, they should do that... but I don't think that is what they are doing. Also, I bet 80% of them don't know what that means. Most of the stuff I have seen is basically protesting that we are not socialist enough.

[sbjj]

We now live in a world where I am greedy for wanting to KEEP the money I worked for. Yet someone who wants to TAKE my money without working is not greedy.

Go Figure.

[sbjj]

This is true. Thinking otherwise is a pipe dream.

The only way out is a complete revolution, and that will never happen, because even though people are discontent, they're not discontent enough to risk their lives or risk going to prison.

This will not happen because some people want to revolt against the Feds. While some want to revolt into the arms of the Feds.

[SPX]

Osama is on record saying the reason we were attacked was because we have our military in Saudi Arabia. His holy war started after we kept our troops in Saudi Arabia after the Gulf war.

The Saudis were our allies and we had just come to the rescue. You can't just pull your troops out immediately.

Let's say China and Iran attacked us tomorrow and it was too much for us to handle. The Brits come and save our asses. I would expect they would keep some sort of military presence here for a period of time after shit had cooled down.

[sbjj]

The Saudis were our allies and we had just come to the rescue. You can't just pull your troops out immediately.

Let's say China and Iran attacked us tomorrow and it was too much for us to handle. The Brits come and save our asses. I would expect they would keep some sort of military presence here for a period of time after shit had cooled down.

No one attacked Saudi Arabia. To my knowledge, Hussein did not even plan on invading them. There was no reason for us to have a military force there. And we still do have troops there.

[Svino]

Also, I bet 80% of them don't know what that means. Most of the stuff I have seen is basically protesting that we are not socialist enough.

80%? Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me. Most people on all sides are kinda ignorant.

Situated within a propaganda-driven political climate that regards regulation like consumer protection or graduated taxation or Medicare as "SOCIALISM!", I would have to agree that yes, the problem is that we are not "socialist" enough.

[SPX]

We now live in a world where I am greedy for wanting to KEEP the money I worked for. Yet someone who wants to TAKE my money without working is not greedy.

Go Figure.

Even though I don't always agree with the liberal agenda regarding dollars and taxes, I do understand the frustration against the 1%ers. I don't blame anyone for making as much money as they can make, but it's simply not true that "anyone can work hard and achieve the American dream." A lot of people work hard every day, but they still struggle to feed themselves and their families. Honestly, when it comes down to becoming extremely wealthy, I think it's more about luck than hard work.

[SPX]

. . . or graduated taxation . . .

So just out of curiosity, what's your argument for graduated taxation? Do you not wrestle with the ethical issues of fairness?

[sbjj]

Even though I don't always agree with the liberal agenda regarding dollars and taxes, I do understand the frustration against the 1%ers. I don't blame anyone for making as much money as they can make, but it's simply not true that "anyone can work hard and achieve the American dream." A lot of people work hard every day, but they still struggle to feed themselves and their families. Honestly, when it comes down to becoming extremely wealthy, I think it's more about luck than hard work.

I could not disagree more. There will always be the few that just have bad things happen to them. But for the VAST majrity of people, they will achieve what they really set out to acheive. I have NO college experience at all. Yet I worked my ass off and saved and have gotten to a point where I am really happy and content. And I had some horrible shit thrown at me at times.

But while my young friends were driving around in new cars and paying hundreds of dollars a month for tons of cable channels and fancy cell plans. I was driving a beat up used car and watching TV on a mini black and white TV. Fuckin 2, 4, 7, and 11.

[MMA_scientist]

80%? Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me. Most people on all sides are kinda ignorant.

Situated within a propaganda-driven political climate that regards regulation like consumer protection or graduated taxation or Medicare as "SOCIALISM!", I would have to agree that yes, the problem is that we are not "socialist" enough.

Well, even those teachers in that article, who are probably among the highest functioning protesters, were talking about just spreading it around (and not just the U.S.- the world- and these are your hand picked representatives of the movement here). I am not talking about what righties sometimes call socialism, I am talking about grown adults who think the world would be better if we were all just forced to share everything...

[sbjj]

80%? Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me. Most people on all sides are kinda ignorant.

Situated within a propaganda-driven political climate that regards regulation like consumer protection or graduated taxation or Medicare as "SOCIALISM!", I would have to agree that yes, the problem is that we are not "socialist" enough.

So, you thinkin maybe we need to be a little more like Greece?

[Svino]

So, you thinkin maybe we need to be a little more like Greece?

Greece is nuts. But it wouldn't kill us to be a little more like Sweden in some ways. Or even Germany.