UFC 134 Rio de Janeiro Aug 27th

[poopoo333]

ok up on BFO now

[SPX]

Thoughts on Loveland/Jabouin?

[poopoo333]

I bet on Loveland to win 2u. Solid grappling/striking, looked strong against Benevidez. I am not really sure where Jabouin is better then him to be honest. I might up the bet.

[edman5555]

Speaking strictly from a clinch standpoint Greco is more effective than Judo, but if you want to know what to do after the clinch goes to the ground then Greco isn't going to help you for shit.

yes

[poopoo333]

Also Jabouin is known to have conditioning issues, and he is making his first cut to 135 lbs. Jabouin also fights with a high output, and if he does this + has to handle Loveland when it comes to grappling, there is a good chance he will tire out. Also Loveland will have a 10 inch reach advantage according to the stats I found listed.

[SPX]

I didn't see Loveland's fight with Benavidez, but I'm curious about this superior striking you mention. Because kickboxing is Jabouin's game.

[MMA_scientist]

Don't see anything I am too excited about. I am definitely going to be on Forrest for a small play. Schaub seems to be the best line for a favorite. The prop lines opened while I was on vacation, so I think I missed my opportuniy for a magic parlay.

[poopoo333]

Scientist...if it's not American, how good is a "(insert country here) wrestling champ"? Nedkov is a wrestling champ from whatever country he is from which is kind of making me regret my Cane bet, but then again, last weekend the 6x Czech Republic wrestling champ Karlos Vemola got wrestlefucked up the ass for 15 minutes by a non wrestler.

[poopoo333]

X...did you bet Fisher?

[SPX]

Not yet. The best I can get him at is +175 and considering he's gone past +200 I'm going to see what happens with the line.

[MMA_scientist]

Scientist...if it's not American, how good is a "(insert country here) wrestling champ"? Nedkov is a wrestling champ from whatever country he is from which is kind of making me regret my Cane bet, but then again, last weekend the 6x Czech Republic wrestling champ Karlos Vemola got wrestlefucked up the ass for 15 minutes by a non wrestler.

Well iut depends on the country. Czech wrestling is pretty horrible. But Russian wrestling is better than American. Give me the country, and I will rate it.

My personal opinion is that foreign wrestlers are not as good because America is the only nation that focuses on folkstyle. Freestyle and Greco Roman are the olympic styles, but they have no mat wrestling and there is no focus on control on the mat or in the takedown. They are a lot more similar to judo in that it really does not matter how you land, it matters how big the throw was. In folkstyle, if you don't land on top, you didn't get the takedown. In international styles, that really is not the case. Also, the rules do not focus on escapes or reversals. A lot of people like to credit Greco with MMA success, but I really think it is the folkstyle base. In the NCAA they do folkstyle, we don't start freestyle and greco until after NCAAs. A lot of wrestlers do them in the off season, but it is not a focus until later.

Bottom line, with the international styles (other countries) it varies more from wrestler to wrestler. You really can't bank on them having good control or takedowns for mma. Like I said, it is a lot like judo in that regard, som eof them are really good on the mat, some not so much.

[poopoo333]

Bulgaria.

[SPX]

My personal opinion is that foreign wrestlers are not as good because America is the only nation that focuses on folkstyle. Freestyle and Greco Roman are the olympic styles, but they have no mat wrestling and there is no focus on control on the mat or in the takedown. They are a lot more similar to judo in that it really does not matter how you land, it matters how big the throw was. In folkstyle, if you don't land on top, you didn't get the takedown. In international styles, that really is not the case. Also, the rules do not focus on escapes or reversals. A lot of people like to credit Greco with MMA success, but I really think it is the folkstyle base. In the NCAA they do folkstyle, we don't start freestyle and greco until after NCAAs. A lot of wrestlers do them in the off season, but it is not a focus until later.

I thought "folk-style" was just a catch-all term for various local wrestling styles throughout the world.

[MMA_scientist]

Pretty good. They are not far behind the U.S. in international rankings. There is basically Russia, Turkey, Cuba, U.S., Japan, Georgia, and then everyone else. Bulgaria is one of the best of the "everyone else." But most countries train more like BJJ stylists, more emphasis on flow and technique. Americans train mental toughness and conditioning. It just transfers better to mma. I wouldn't worry too much.

[MMA_scientist]

I thought "folk-style" was just a catch-all term for various local wrestling styles throughout the world.

No, folkstyle is what you see in American highschool as college. The par terre position (referee's position) only exists in folkstyle. All of the mat wrestling you see, the switch, standup, sit out, granbys ect... they do not exist in international styles. They are pretty much just in folkstyle. After the takedown in freestyle and greco, you only have to expose the back... so the moves are just about rolling, like a gut wrench or leg lace or crotch lift, or the fanous Karelin lift. The bottom man in greco and FS generally just bellies out on the mat and waits for a stand up. You only get about 10 seconds to turn them. In folkstyle, the top man gets riding time points and the bottom man has to escape. It is really a totally different sport.